Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 1002
Location: Hollywood California
Posted: 04/08/13 10:50
and what about using JR4 with bugs that is not going to be tech supported , do you easily get offended because your customers points out facts and shows how they wasted money ?
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 37583
Location: Seattle, WA
Posted: 04/08/13 10:52
izhmel:
and what about using JR4 with bugs that is not going to be tech supported , do you easily get offended because your customers points out facts and shows how they wasted money ?
I actually don't get offended - I've been doing this for a very long time and I've learned over the years that you can't please everyone all the time.
Feel free to post any bugs to the Jamroom Help forum:
My guess is if there is a need, a developer will create a PayPal only system. I personally think you will see an increase in subscriptions because there are a fair amount of people who will not use paypal.
Building modules is fun. They usually work when you release them. Over time things change and you then have to go back and re-build them to keep them working. This is much less fun.
JR4 is very big and the shopping cart is complex.
I like the foxycart idea too because the chances are that it will continue to work into the future are high.
I hope JR5 turns into a very stable core platform that requires very little support so that it inspires confidence that its a good base to build a site on top of.
I want to see many more developers building stuff for jamroom.
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 1002
Location: Hollywood California
Posted: 04/08/13 19:35
foxycart may be better , but foxycart is greedy 180 yearly + 15 cents per transaction is more than any distributor charges for a download i.e I tunes . They wanna get paid even when there is no sale $15 monthly
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Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 354
Location: New York City
Posted: 04/08/13 19:58
izhmel:
Quote:
Remember too - if you are unhappy with this setup you can always develop your own PayPal module that works exactly as you want, or find a developer to create it for you. You can always continue to use JR4 as well - just because it is not "new" does not mean it does not work, or that you are being forced to upgrade.
Why do we have to pay to develop a payment system for JR5, when we already payed for one in JR4 that is useless in JR5 ? this is a waist of money for JR4 users
I have to agree with izhmel here. We paid for the jamroom payment pack in the past and it was a good system. I understand the need to support other processors. However, by killing the native paypal module in JR, you took away functionality, forced people to pay for foxycart integration, forced them into an additional ongoing fee with foxycart.
I'm still setting it up, but my initial thoughts look at foxycart as a step back for paypal users.
-no routinng to multiple accounts (micro vs regular payments)
-you still need paypal to do payouts
-additional monthly fees.
I think the correct move would be to provide 2 separate modules. 1 replicating the existing JR3/4 paypal integration and one for foxycart; with an free upgrade to existing users of the payment pack. I know you want to think we can still use paypal through foxycart if we want; but its not the same thing. To say that if we want a separate paypal module, we should can have someone build it is as izhmel says, "not cool". Thats why we paid for the payment pack.
And yes, I would prefer that my OS included the same tools as the previous version. To use your analogy, imagine next year your OS didn't have the ability to search and were asked instead to pay google every time you wanted to look for a file on your computer....You COULD stat with the old version, but is that really the answer you want to hear? How long before development stops on JR4 and we need to upgrade anyway? why keep digging the hole deeper? So, not a good answer.
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 1002
Location: Hollywood California
Posted: 04/08/13 20:13
And remember paypal charges per transaction by time you finish with charges you make about 55 cents on a download. this is bullduzle and is unfair to force us to use foxycart . All our investment with JR4 is cone and I don't believe paypal is the issue since other system uses paypal
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 37583
Location: Seattle, WA
Posted: 04/08/13 20:17
I don't have much to add that I have not already covered in my previous posts, but wanted to address something I keep seeing - the idea that since you already paid for the JR4 payment pack that anything in JR5 that provides the same functionality should be free. JR5 is a completely new system from the ground up - every other Jamroom upgrade (1 -> 2, 2 ->3, 3 -> 4) has been a paid upgrade - why is that you feel the JR5 modules should be free? Is there a reason you feel it is unfair to charge for the work we've done?
Again - I need to re-iterate too as I feel we keep losing it in the conversation, you are not being FORCED to upgrade to JR5. If JR4 works for you (and you have already paid for it) it's not going to cost you a dime to keep running it, developing it or using it. It's not as if all of a sudden JR4 no longer works because JR5 is out?
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 37583
Location: Seattle, WA
Posted: 04/08/13 20:18
izhmel:
And remember paypal charges per transaction by time you finish with charges you make about 55 cents on a download. this is bullduzle and is unfair to force us to use foxycart . All our investment with JR4 is cone and I don't believe paypal is the issue since other system uses paypal
How is your JR4 investment gone? I apologize but I just cannot follow your logic in any way here.
Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 354
Location: New York City
Posted: 04/08/13 22:26
Brian:
I don't have much to add that I have not already covered in my previous posts, but wanted to address something I keep seeing - the idea that since you already paid for the JR4 payment pack that anything in JR5 that provides the same functionality should be free. JR5 is a completely new system from the ground up - every other Jamroom upgrade (1 -> 2, 2 ->3, 3 -> 4) has been a paid upgrade - why is that you feel the JR5 modules should be free? Is there a reason you feel it is unfair to charge for the work we've done?
Again - I need to re-iterate too as I feel we keep losing it in the conversation, you are not being FORCED to upgrade to JR5. If JR4 works for you (and you have already paid for it) it's not going to cost you a dime to keep running it, developing it or using it. It's not as if all of a sudden JR4 no longer works because JR5 is out?
- Brian
You can say it a new system but its not. Its being pitched as an upgrade, thus the "version 5" part. In that case its safe to assume some features would be included in the upgrade. For example, everything in the core. The core was a free upgrade but everything in the superpack was costs extra. So you actually CHOSE which features we would have to pay for.
I'm all for paying for a new version that has new functionality. We pay for the upgrade for the NEW and IMPROVED capabilities it brings. The problem here is that you took capabilities away so that we would have to pay for the new ones. If you had included the original paypal functionality in the new JR5 core, I would not have had to buy the superpack.
You are trying to justify this by telling people that if they don't like it, stay on JR 4. However, that is not an option. If you are calling this an upgrade to JR4, it assumes at some point you will stop developing and supporting JR4 (if you haven't already). So if people expect to build a business off your code, they need to know that there is someone maintaining it and patching it as necessary. For all these people you tell to stick with JR 4, how long do you plan to support it?
Maybe you should change the name of the new system to JamHouse v1....
Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Posts: 5341
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posted: 04/09/13 00:34
Brian:
Just a follow up here to ask a question - if the Jamroom Network (us) provided basically a "middle man" service to FoxyCart - i.e. we pick up the FoxyCart tab and you could run our cart on your site, would that be acceptable? Remember that when the user checked out their payment would be sent to "The Jamroom Network" - not your site name. We would simply "payout" on a monthly basis to those sites that had sales so you in turn could pay your artists. This would allow you to have a cart/subscriptions without having a FoxyCart account.
This was what we were looking into, but I wonder if the lack of being able to "brand it" for your site would be a deal breaker or not.
Thanks!
- Brian
Anybody got any constructive comments on this option that Brian offered but has so far been ignored?
