Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 1417
Location: The Americas
Posted: 04/09/13 01:13
Paul:
Brian:
Just a follow up here to ask a question - if the Jamroom Network (us) provided basically a "middle man" service to FoxyCart - i.e. we pick up the FoxyCart tab and you could run our cart on your site, would that be acceptable? Remember that when the user checked out their payment would be sent to "The Jamroom Network" - not your site name. We would simply "payout" on a monthly basis to those sites that had sales so you in turn could pay your artists. This would allow you to have a cart/subscriptions without having a FoxyCart account.
This was what we were looking into, but I wonder if the lack of being able to "brand it" for your site would be a deal breaker or not.
Thanks
- Brian
Anybody got any constructive comments on this option that Brian offered but has so far been ignored?
I have to be honest, I understand the frustration and disappointment of not having a built in payment system without having to go to a third party system.
It's also true the jr4 payment system had a lot of requirements before you (admin) could actually use it such as qualifying wit PayPal vendor accounts plus the restrictions of only available to US..
It certainly wasn't the perfect solution. Everyone that, could use it, whether they had sales or not, weren't locked into monthly fees and the micro payment made sense..
But... Yes, to the donation option, Brian is offering. We certainly could use it even in the jr4 version. To have a donate button attached to any download would be fantastic..
Not sure how the jr site admin would get a piece, but even without that possibility, I believe it would be a great recruiting tool.
So Brian.. Please, yes on the donate button and thanks.
Ps. Not being a code guy, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head on how to set up the functions of the new JR.
I know it's still in beta, but some layman's tutorials would be great..
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 1417
Location: The Americas
Posted: 04/09/13 01:29
Brian:
One thing that would be easy to develop (as a module) is a simple "donate" via PayPal module - if you're doing under $15 per month in sales, this might actually be a better route to go (maybe adsense + donations).
- Brian
Yes..yes..yes.. A simple donate button available to accounts through quota..
To be at every download function (user option) .. With a variety of online payment options would be great.
Would be great to have on jr4 sites also.. Would certainly add value to the subscription function..
TIA..
Excuse me for repeating this, I had not read all the posts before my comments to Paul.
The docs will come along once it gets out of beta.
If you've got a specific question because you're trying to get something working, throw it up in the beta forum section. Should be able to get some help that way for now.
Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Posts: 5341
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posted: 04/09/13 08:39
All the arguments have been repeatedly explained.
You're clutching at straws here.
You've not even commented on the alternative solution Brian suggested and one that we are prepared to look into.
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 1002
Location: Hollywood California
Posted: 04/09/13 08:52
Quote:
Remember too - if you are unhappy with this setup you can always develop your own PayPal module that works exactly as you want, or find a developer to create it for you. You can always continue to use JR4 as well - just because it is not "new" does not mean it does not work, or that you are being forced to upgrade.
Why do we have to pay to develop a payment system for JR5, when we already payed for one in JR4 that is useless in JR5 ? this is a waist of money for JR4 users
Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 354
Location: New York City
Posted: 04/09/13 09:04
andersda:
Brian:
I don't have much to add that I have not already covered in my previous posts, but wanted to address something I keep seeing - the idea that since you already paid for the JR4 payment pack that anything in JR5 that provides the same functionality should be free. JR5 is a completely new system from the ground up - every other Jamroom upgrade (1 -> 2, 2 ->3, 3 -> 4) has been a paid upgrade - why is that you feel the JR5 modules should be free? Is there a reason you feel it is unfair to charge for the work we've done?
Again - I need to re-iterate too as I feel we keep losing it in the conversation, you are not being FORCED to upgrade to JR5. If JR4 works for you (and you have already paid for it) it's not going to cost you a dime to keep running it, developing it or using it. It's not as if all of a sudden JR4 no longer works because JR5 is out?
- Brian
You can say it a new system but its not. Its being pitched as an upgrade, thus the "version 5" part. In that case its safe to assume some features would be included in the upgrade. For example, everything in the core. The core was a free upgrade but everything in the superpack was costs extra. So you actually CHOSE which features we would have to pay for.
I'm all for paying for a new version that has new functionality. We pay for the upgrade for the NEW and IMPROVED capabilities it brings. The problem here is that you took capabilities away so that we would have to pay for the new ones. If you had included the original paypal functionality in the new JR5 core, I would not have had to buy the superpack.
You are trying to justify this by telling people that if they don't like it, stay on JR 4. However, that is not an option. If you are calling this an upgrade to JR4, it assumes at some point you will stop developing and supporting JR4 (if you haven't already). So if people expect to build a business off your code, they need to know that there is someone maintaining it and patching it as necessary. For all these people you tell to stick with JR 4, how long do you plan to support it?
Maybe you should change the name of the new system to JamHouse v1....
Brian, I know you have been doing this a long time. So have I. Actually, I manage product at the largest open source video management platform. I too made once made the mistake of deprecating a feature everyone was still using for something I thought would be better in the long run.
First off, you want to want your users to upgrade. Nobody on the JR5 thread is here because they believe they should stay on JR4 (for the reasons previously stated)
But more importantly, you can't take functionality away in UPGRADE without pissing people off. Especially if you then ask them to pay for a more expensive replacement. To any users in the U.S happy with paypal, this is a bad deal. Foxy cart should have been a new option for users that didn't want or couldn't use paypal. Even then, I wonder how they will handle payouts if they can't use paypal.
This is not to say the foxycart module is bad. I'm sure it does some things the old paypal module can't. Eventually, it will be able to handle multiple payment processors, so maybe then it will be worth it. But right now it brings no additional value.
I've supported Jamroom from the very early on and have bought almost every major pack you have developed. Jamroom is an amazing system. However the upgrade process has always been a point of frustration for me and was one of the main reasons I never launched my site. With any custom code that I had developed, it was very difficult to keep JR updated; especially with the rapid pace of development and bug fixes. I know JR 5 is supposed to go a long way to relieving this problem. To that end, as you know, I have been looking for someone to help me integrate my old code with JR5. My cost in the foxycart replacement will also cost me additional in dev costs.
I know you've said your peace, but I wanted to throw my last 2 cents in there in the hopes that you will bring back the old paypal module as an alternative to foxycart. You already have allot of the code. It would be allot easier for you to develop instead of a stranger (there are no devs out there that know and understand JR5 like you and the JR network team). I'd pay for it as part of the superpack if i needed to, but its may be a better alternative to many of your existing users.
Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 354
Location: New York City
Posted: 04/09/13 09:13
Michael:
american:
All of them..
The docs will come along once it gets out of beta.
If you've got a specific question because you're trying to get something working, throw it up in the beta forum section. Should be able to get some help that way for now.
I thought this was the last beta before release. I would have thought the system is stable enough to document some of the basic configuration and install; or at least a quickstart guide. I can continue to play around, but I apologize in advance if I ask allot of stupid questions that would normally be answered in the docs. Please take it with a grain of salt if I criticize something because of my ignorance.
I was testing the cart in live mode and when I signed up to my website for a monthly subscription the cart did not appear. The system said it would send me an email and i never got it, also it never ask me to pay for the monthly subscription. Also when the cart does pop up it is blank.
