[Natedogg265]

As a developer, I have to also express my dissatisfaction with paying for a shopping cart. I've used jamroom for 6 plus years and this new fee is quite disappointing. I wasn't planning to move to jr5 for my site anyway, but I can see it hurting sales across the board and that's what bothers me most.

If I had experience building shopping carts, a module would be in development as I type.


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Last edited by Natedogg265 on 04/10/13 09:46; edited 1 time in total

[Brian]

Natedogg265:

As a developer, I have to also express my dissatisfaction with paying for a shopping cart. I've used jamroom for 6 plus years and this new fee is quite disappointing.

Thank you for feedback.

- Brian


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[Natedogg265]

It may be a good idea to have an "in-house" shopping cart module and let Foxycart be the "Cadillac" version.


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[izhmel]

I hope Brian understand our point " paying monthly fees when we might not have any sales", this is a big step backwards for Jamroom and to stay away from any type of monthly paid service that would cause Jamroom users to be pissed of especially if the service was free before the upgrades, and only offer these services as an option.

The other problem with " foxycart" is after paying the monthly fees we have to pay pay pal fees resulting in more fees than any of the major distributor charges, i.e. I tunes , after paying all the fees we would make about 50 cents for a download .

To believe JR5 cant work with pay-pal is unwise and wonder whose idea it was to introduce foxycart and wonder if foxycart and Jamroom have some sweetheart deal going on .

[Brian]

We chose FoxyCart for the same reason we chose OneAll - these companies can devote resources to make sure what they are offering works well, and they can provide a much higher level of service and support for that segment then we ever could.

There are no plans at this time to build an "alternate" payment module - at least not by us. Seeing that there is demand I'm hopeful a 3rd party developer might step in and build something.

With that said, I do have an open email to FoxyCart support to find out if we can offer those sites that do not want to sign up and pay for FoxyCart on their own sites the ability to use OUR foxycart domain instead. This would let you run sales on your site using our cart - we would simply payout each month to those sites that were participating.

So I really don't want anyone to feel like we are not being honest here:

- there's no "deals" anywhere - other then we've tried to negotiate lower costs for our customers, but so far no go.
- I'm not going to lie and say you will be 100% happy with every JR5 decision we make. That's not going to happen.
- You may disagree with our decision on how to do things, but those decisions are made based on what we believe we can deliver and support. If you feel differently you're free to try building your own system to suit your needs - you can even use the Jamroom 5 Core now that it is open source.

So again - you can disagree with all of this if you want - it might even make you angry, and I'm sorry about that - but please be respectful of the fact that a lot of work and thought has gone into Jamroom 5 to try to make it the best system it can be.

- Brian


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[ktb1025]

I respect everything the JR team is doing towards moving this platform forward. I just can't get past the Foxy Cart implementation, otherwise I'd be 100% on board.

99.9% of my income from the site comes from ticket sales via the vault/event pages. After Paypal fees, there's not much margin for any other expenses. I'm still a happy JR4 user though. It's got everything I need and does everything I want. The only drawback to staying with JR4 I suppose will be diminished support, the inability to scale my site to a true mobile platform, and those "depracated errors" in my log files.

Meanwhile, I'll keep my eyes open for the day when someone builds a functional shopping cart similar to the one in JR4. No sense for me to argue the point, it is what it is.


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[Natedogg265]

I think it goes without saying I would never make accusations. I'm not even angry. I think it's gonna hurt sales and that's the only thing that bothers me.

If I had experience building carts, I would love this decision. I may look into it.


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[Brian]

ktb1025:

and those "depracated errors" in my log files.

I'm testing JR 4.3.2 this week that will fix this + other small issues. Just a heads up...

- Brian


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Last edited by Brian on 04/10/13 12:53; edited 1 time in total

[izhmel]

Quote:

we would simply payout each month to those sites that were participating.

dose the money goes to Jamroom before payout ?

[Brian]

izhmel:

Quote: we would simply payout each month to those sites that were participating. dose the money goes to Jamroom before payout ?

Yeah - it would come into our account, and then we'd payout to sites on a monthly basis. This would make it so you do not have to have a FoxyCart account. We would pick up the monthly fee and the transaction fee would come out of the payout back to you. Remember too that the transaction fee is UP TO 15 cents - i.e. for purchases under $2 it is 1 cent.

Sites that want to have full control over their payout could simply switch over to their own account when they feel the need to.

Let me know if that helps.

- Brian


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[Brian]

Natedogg265:

I think it goes without saying I would never make accusations. I'm not even angry. I think it's gonna hurt sales and that's the only thing that bothers me. If I had experience building carts, I would love this decision. I may look into it.

I would encourage you to. The payment pack for JR4 contains the most complicated code we've ever done - not to mention 400K+ in gateway plugins. And still the number one request for custom development we get is to "create a payment gateway for XXX processor". Seriously we've had requests for dozens and dozens of different payment processors, and it is one of the big reasons we looked externally for JR5 - there was just no way we could build all that and support it with our small team, and we didn't want to continue to leave a large portion of our Jamroom customers in the dark in regards to payment processing.

So I'd encourage you to check it out.

- Brian


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[izhmel]

Is this the motive for not wanting to listen to other Jr users ?

Quote:

Yeah - it would come into our account, and then we'd payout to sites on a monthly basis. This would make it so you do not have to have a FoxyCart account. We would pick up the monthly fee and the transaction fee would come out of the payout back to you. Remember too that the transaction fee is UP TO 15 cents - i.e. for purchases under $2 it is 1 cent. Sites that want to have full control over their payout could simply switch over to their own account when they feel the need to. Let me know if that helps. - Brian

You keep saying "you hope someone develops a shopping cart" , so that means it can be done and you have no interest in doing one.

Why would you want to pick up all the fees ? "

Quote:

We would pick up the monthly fee and the transaction fee would come out

?

[Brian]

izhmel:

Is this the motive for not wanting to listen to other Jr users ? Quote: Yeah - it would come into our account, and then we'd payout to sites on a monthly basis. This would make it so you do not have to have a FoxyCart account. We would pick up the monthly fee and the transaction fee would come out of the payout back to you. Remember too that the transaction fee is UP TO 15 cents - i.e. for purchases under $2 it is 1 cent. Sites that want to have full control over their payout could simply switch over to their own account when they feel the need to. Let me know if that helps. - Brian You keep saying "you hope someone develops a shopping cart" , so that means it can be done and you have no interest in doing one. Why would you want to pick up all the fees ? " Quote: We would pick up the monthly fee and the transaction fee would come out ?

It's $15 - it's a very small amount for us on a monthly basis, and MUCH cheaper than spending hundreds of development hours building and supporting a completely separate payment setup.

Honestly - and I mean this with the best of intentions, but if $15 dollars per month for a service you use is "too much" (even including the up to 15 cents per transaction) then you should raise your prices so your margin is higher. If you are selling less than $15 per month in digital sales, you would be better off looking for alternate ways to bring in income (such as affiliate programs, referrals, advertising. etc.).

Of course that is my personal opinion, so please take it as that.

Thanks!

- Brian


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[andersda]

Brian:

Natedogg265: I think it goes without saying I would never make accusations. I'm not even angry. I think it's gonna hurt sales and that's the only thing that bothers me. If I had experience building carts, I would love this decision. I may look into it. I would encourage you to. The payment pack for JR4 contains the most complicated code we've ever done - not to mention 400K+ in gateway plugins. And still the number one request for custom development we get is to "create a payment gateway for XXX processor". Seriously we've had requests for dozens and dozens of different payment processors, and it is one of the big reasons we looked externally for JR5 - there was just no way we could build all that and support it with our small team, and we didn't want to continue to leave a large portion of our Jamroom customers in the dark in regards to payment processing. So I'd encourage you to check it out. - Brian

I have to say I agree 100% with Natedogs comments. Personally, I don't think you thought this decision through enough. As you can tell by numerous comments, the value proposition of doing something related to ecommerce has been diminished by replacing it with a module that erodes revenue; especially the impact it has at scale. I'm surprised you are not more receptive to the feedback.

Is there any reason you wouldn't consider packaging the capabilities of the old paypal integration into a new module? I mean, much of the code is already there. If you think someone else could build it from scratch, it seams like it would be much easier for the Jamroom network. How much demand would you need to believe that's the right way to go.?

[Brian]

andersda:

I have to say I agree 100% with Natedogs comments. Personally, I don't think you thought this decision through enough. As you can tell by numerous comments, the value proposition of doing something related to ecommerce has been diminished by replacing it with a module that erodes revenue; especially the impact it has at scale. I'm surprised you are not more receptive to the feedback.

This has been thought through pretty extensively, and there are a few people here disagreeing with the decision, which we expected. In my opinion bringing the JR4 payment pack into JR5 would be a huge mistake, as it's not something we can support any longer. We just don't have the manpower to do so, and I would rather not continue to tell our customers in countries outside of the ones PayPal supports that we have no solution for them.

Again - I understand you do not like this decision or the direction JR5 is going in regards to payment support, but please don't indicate that this is something we did without thinking about.

Quote:

Is there any reason you wouldn't consider packaging the capabilities of the old paypal integration into a new module?

JR5 is 100% different than JR4 - "repackaging" the JR4 payment system for JR5 would require a complete rewrite. The systems are not compatible.

Quote:

How much demand would you need to believe that's the right way to go.?

If you could guarantee $50,000 in sales this coming year from it, I would do it. But that would be a huge stretch - at no point has the payment pack ever brought in anywhere close to that amount. With $50,000 in sales we could hire more support personal for the sure-to-come requests for additional features and gateway support.

- Brian


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