How To Use The Notifications Dropdown Menu - More Clarity Is Needed - The Jamroom Network

@researchcooperative
6 years ago
694 posts

I have attached a screenshot of the notifications page, from my own Admin Account Settings page.

It looks like I can either choose to disable all notifications (first option offered at top) or notifications for just one of the many options offered in the dropdown list.

It is not obvious how to configure notifications for more than one purpose. If we choose one option from the drop down list, what happens to the other options?

There is no quick way to review the current notification settings for my account. I certainly cannot remember all my past decisions, but it is slow work to look at each item in the dropdown menu, to see if it remains a setting that I want (assuming that I can have more than one notification item active).

It would be good, if possible, to have two lists showing:

"Current notification settings - disabled"

and

"Current notification settings - enabled"

This would clarify the current situation, and how to navigate the options, without overloading the page with choices.

--
PJ Matthews, Kyoto
Migrated from Ning 2.0. Now at Jamroom 6 beta and using Jamroom Hosting for The Research Cooperative (researchcooperative.org)
updated by @researchcooperative: 09/11/18 03:14:07PM

Strumelia
@strumelia
6 years ago
3,602 posts

I remember when the notifications settings page was laid out differently- with all options showing at the same time, each with its radio button choices to the right of it. Then it was changed to the drop down menu, in order to neaten things up. However, some of my members never noticed that it was actually a drop down menu... so they left it at whatever the first shown setting was, and never explored the drop down.
Personally, I found it much more helpful and easier to adjust notification settings back when we could see them all at once and make the various clicked radio buttons and then hit 'save' for everything once we had the settings the way we wanted them all.

--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

@michael
6 years ago
7,692 posts

Previously it was all the options but that was deemed too confusing so was adjusted to the current model.

You're seam to be offering the suggestion to revert to the old model of all options displaying. dilemma

Strumelia
@strumelia
6 years ago
3,602 posts

You don't happen to have a screenshot of how it used to look before you made it a drop down menu, do you Michael?
Yeah I suppose dilemma... but not trying to cause trouble though. lol.

--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

@researchcooperative
6 years ago
694 posts

Perhaps the current settings can be navigated in the the following manner.

Current notification settings (if not all disabled) [= section title under the "disable all notifications" setting)

1. Currently set at "do not notify" -> dropdown menu
2. Currently set at "send email" -> dropdown menu
3. Currently set at "send private note" -> dropdown menu

Note if "Disable all notifications" has been selected and saved, then the menus for 2 and 3 will be empty (or showing "none"), and the full menu will be displayed at 1.

If "Disable all notifications" is deselected, then changing a setting in the dropdown menu at 1 will shift the item into the menu for 2 or 3 depending on what is selected.

This way we can easily review the current settings and change them. Assuming that what I am suggesting is technically possible.

--
PJ Matthews, Kyoto
Migrated from Ning 2.0. Now at Jamroom 6 beta and using Jamroom Hosting for The Research Cooperative (researchcooperative.org)
updated by @researchcooperative: 04/14/18 07:45:16PM

@michael
6 years ago
7,692 posts

Previously it looked like this:

@researchcooperative
6 years ago
694 posts

Thanks for the previous layout.

The problem there is that there is no obvious structure to the list. If the items could be organised into functional sets, with a title for each set, then this would help guide users to the decisions they might want to make.

At first glance, it looks like a random list. Making it a long alphabetical list would not help, as the different functional areas would remain mixed up.

--
PJ Matthews, Kyoto
Migrated from Ning 2.0. Now at Jamroom 6 beta and using Jamroom Hosting for The Research Cooperative (researchcooperative.org)

Strumelia
@strumelia
6 years ago
3,602 posts

Thanks Michael. For sites like mine, there are no items related to purchasing items, so my list in your screenshot wasn't quite so long, and it felt fairly easy to look through and understand. My moderators also were dismayed by the newer dropdown menu format, when that occurred. We all felt that though it created a neater looking page, it actually made it more annoying to go through the settings individually, and took way longer. Plus, some of my members mentioned over time that they didn't even realize there was a dropdown menu in there...they just thought it was one setting only.

--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 04/15/18 08:29:03AM

@lornawebber
6 years ago
334 posts

I understand why you changed to a drop-down menu, but I prefer the idea of showing all current settings on the page. I think our users would find it quicker and more understandable. We don't have very many notifications for standard users.

Strumelia
@strumelia
6 years ago
3,602 posts

lornawebber:We don't have very many notifications for standard users.

Yes, some of these settings only show for Admins ...and admins are not usually put off by seeing a long list of settings. Regular newbie members see a slightly shorter list than Admins see anyway.

--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 04/15/18 08:36:09AM

SteveX
@ultrajam
6 years ago
2,583 posts

Some sites have very many notification options for standard users.

It depends on the site.

--
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Education, learning resources, TEL, AR/VR/MR, CC licensed content, panoramas, interactive narrative, sectional modules (like jrDocs), lunch at Uni of Bristol. Get in touch if you share my current interests or can suggest better :)

@researchcooperative
6 years ago
694 posts

Would it be possible to sort notification options under headings in the manner shown below?

Even when there are not many options displayed to a user, the arrangement according to function might help. (The "options" here are invented for the purpose of discussion).

The headers (Mail, Support, etc) should only appear if the account holder has options to select under them.

Mail:
Private notes
Newsletters
etc.

Support:
Support tickets
Support replies
etc.

Forums and Groups:
Your posts
Replies
Discussions you follow
etc.

--
PJ Matthews, Kyoto
Migrated from Ning 2.0. Now at Jamroom 6 beta and using Jamroom Hosting for The Research Cooperative (researchcooperative.org)

Strumelia
@strumelia
6 years ago
3,602 posts

That would be a helpful change in my opinion PJ. It would help the less adept members to realize there were multiple options to look through.

--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

@researchcooperative
6 years ago
694 posts

It would also be good to think about how the help notes are placed.

In the original layout recovered by Michael, there were help notes for every single option. These could be reduced to a help note for each functional category.

--
PJ Matthews, Kyoto
Migrated from Ning 2.0. Now at Jamroom 6 beta and using Jamroom Hosting for The Research Cooperative (researchcooperative.org)

@michael
6 years ago
7,692 posts

Not impossible, but wonder if its worth the effort. Currently none of the email options have a category like "Mail" "Support" "Forums and Groups" so each one would need to be analyzed and categorized, then each module adjusted to have that category available.

Open for suggestions for category classifications for each.

updated by @michael: 04/15/18 07:59:21PM

@researchcooperative
6 years ago
694 posts

It may be worth the effort for the options that most members of a network are likely to see.

I will try to think about this some more.

Thanks.

--
PJ Matthews, Kyoto
Migrated from Ning 2.0. Now at Jamroom 6 beta and using Jamroom Hosting for The Research Cooperative (researchcooperative.org)

@researchcooperative
6 years ago
694 posts

1. Today I received a request from Guardian News site to update my notification preferences at their site. The member account management system seems similar to that provided by JR, but they offer much more obvious explanation of the notification options. This reflects the fact that they are a content rich site with paid writers and information that they would like to push to users. So I do not expect that the same level of communication is needed for all JR sites. Nevertheless, it is a good example to consider (see attached screen shot from my own Guardian account page).

2. Looking again at the JR system (see second attached screenshot), I find that there is no help button (with question mark) that can be used to identify the dropdown menu for controlling notifications as a dropdown menu, and to explain how to use it.

3. The help button system imposes an extra step on users: they have to actively seek explanation and have to be familiar with the button system, which most new users or infrequent users are not. In some contexts, this may not be critical, in others it may be.

It would be nice if the system could more generally give administrators the option of displaying a static help message that is automatically displayed alongside an item, as well as the help button. I would like to place a static help message (aka label) alongside the dropdown menu for notifications.

In the case of the signup create and update forms, and other forms, both the label and help messaging are already possible. Can this be provided for the notifications page?

--
PJ Matthews, Kyoto
Migrated from Ning 2.0. Now at Jamroom 6 beta and using Jamroom Hosting for The Research Cooperative (researchcooperative.org)

@michael
6 years ago
7,692 posts

Like this?

@researchcooperative
6 years ago
694 posts

michael:
Like this?

Yes - that looks good. Another approach might be to add static instruction to the present layout, as indicated in the attached mashup.

I wonder if both ways of setting up the notification settings page can be offered for Admin to choose (i.e. with/without dropdown list)?

In the mashup, I have put the "Disable" option last (at the bottom of the page) rather than first (at top).

--
PJ Matthews, Kyoto
Migrated from Ning 2.0. Now at Jamroom 6 beta and using Jamroom Hosting for The Research Cooperative (researchcooperative.org)

SteveX
@ultrajam
6 years ago
2,583 posts

It just looks like too many words to me.

Makes something overcomplicated when it's actually quite simple.

--
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Education, learning resources, TEL, AR/VR/MR, CC licensed content, panoramas, interactive narrative, sectional modules (like jrDocs), lunch at Uni of Bristol. Get in touch if you share my current interests or can suggest better :)

@researchcooperative
6 years ago
694 posts

It's only simple if you already know how the page works!

For (many) new visitors nothing is simple.

But yes... there seems to be too much text. As a language string, the static text could be modified according to the Admin's preference.

--
PJ Matthews, Kyoto
Migrated from Ning 2.0. Now at Jamroom 6 beta and using Jamroom Hosting for The Research Cooperative (researchcooperative.org)

Strumelia
@strumelia
6 years ago
3,602 posts

researchcooperative:
It's only simple if you already know how the page works!
For (many) new visitors nothing is simple.

That is my experience as well. My members tend to need everything spelled out or they get lost. Every single time this comes up with one of my members who are struggling with notifications, they tell me they didn't realize there were other options as well in a drop down there. Every time. (d'OH!)

I reeeally like PJ's suggestion but would word it a bit more succinctly, like this:

Choose or change which site activities you'd like to be notified about in this dropdown menu. The default setting for each is 'send email'. Disable all notifications with the checkbox at bottom.

For sites where the members (and admins) are more savvy, one could easily change the language string to simply "choose your notification options".

...and YEAH x 100 for putting the 'disable all' checkbox at BOTTOM! ;D

--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

SteveX
@ultrajam
6 years ago
2,583 posts

But are you actually testing this with users, or just relying on your own thoughts as to what they might think?

--
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@researchcooperative
6 years ago
694 posts

SteveX:
But are you actually testing this with users, or just relying on your own thoughts as to what they might think?

We can monitor this to some extent by looking at the Notification settings of existing members who have joined at different times.

I looked at several just now, and found that none have touched the default "send email" settings.

In the past, some members have turned off notifications entirely.

I suspect that most members have not been interested enough to look, or have looked without seeing that there is a drop down menu (my own non-comprehending reaction when I first looked).

The fact that I, as site owner, find the settings non-obvious means that most new users are likely to find them non-obvious as well.

--
PJ Matthews, Kyoto
Migrated from Ning 2.0. Now at Jamroom 6 beta and using Jamroom Hosting for The Research Cooperative (researchcooperative.org)

SteveX
@ultrajam
6 years ago
2,583 posts

Just guessing then.

In the interest of clarity, can I ask what it is that you are trying to achieve? You want your users to opt out of site communications, why is that?

--
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Education, learning resources, TEL, AR/VR/MR, CC licensed content, panoramas, interactive narrative, sectional modules (like jrDocs), lunch at Uni of Bristol. Get in touch if you share my current interests or can suggest better :)

SteveX
@ultrajam
6 years ago
2,583 posts

Your members who turned off notifications entirely probably didn't want notifications.

Your members who haven't changed from the defaults are probably happy with the level of communications.

The only way to find out why they have or haven't changed the defaults is to "ask" them.

--
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Education, learning resources, TEL, AR/VR/MR, CC licensed content, panoramas, interactive narrative, sectional modules (like jrDocs), lunch at Uni of Bristol. Get in touch if you share my current interests or can suggest better :)

Strumelia
@strumelia
6 years ago
3,602 posts

I concur with PJ-
I too (!) at first thought there was now only one option to check- until ---as Admin--- I knew the others MUST be in there- and sure enough that's when realized there was now a dropdown menu. But NEW members might only see the one option without realizing there is a dropmenu there.... like I did initially. I doubt this ever happens to people who develop or design sites routinely.

I notice after doing a random sampling of a dozen members from various years who have posted stuff at one time or another on the site, that none among the sampling seem to have adjusted their notifications beyond the default, for all options. This implies 'something' going on.
I have had I think two instances of members writing to me that they didn't want to receive an email every time a particular action occurred (like they had a new follower, or someone Liked their photo). These people were always surprised when I pointed out that they had the ability to customize WHICH notifications they received for what action. Last year I even had a very active Moderator (profile admin) express surprise (and chagrin) that they didn't realize that it was a drop down menu at all. That told me it wasn't just me that didn't expect -and thus didn't see- a dropdown option.
As a minimum solution, I'd like to see a 'help' language string that we can customize, right above that dropdown as PJ suggested... so we can point out to our members the fact that it exists and has options.

--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

Strumelia
@strumelia
6 years ago
3,602 posts

SteveX:
The only way to find out why they have or haven't changed the defaults is to "ask" them.

Steve that's a good idea.
I think I'm going to make a POLL! :D

--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

SteveX
@ultrajam
6 years ago
2,583 posts

Strumelia:This implies 'something' going on.

To me, this suggests that they didn't want to change the level of notifications.

Strumelia:
As a minimum solution, I'd like to see a 'help' language string that we can customize, right above that dropdown as PJ suggested... so we can point out to our members the fact that it exists and has options.

That seems like a good solution.

Everyone can leave it blank and PJ can explain to his users how a dropdown works in 5000 words or less.

--
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Education, learning resources, TEL, AR/VR/MR, CC licensed content, panoramas, interactive narrative, sectional modules (like jrDocs), lunch at Uni of Bristol. Get in touch if you share my current interests or can suggest better :)

@researchcooperative
6 years ago
694 posts

I'm not guessing. I was confused. Others will be confused too.

I'm an experienced scientific editor. Since I didn't understand the notifications page at first glance, I am sure many others will not understand it also, if they have actually seen it. Probably most have not seen it, as most have not filled out their profile details.

I am trying, gradually, to raise activity in the network by making the site as frictionless as possible.

The main reason defaults have not been changed is lack of activity in the network. Of this I am 100% sure.

Whether or not other users are OK with the notifications page, I am not OK with it.

--
PJ Matthews, Kyoto
Migrated from Ning 2.0. Now at Jamroom 6 beta and using Jamroom Hosting for The Research Cooperative (researchcooperative.org)

SteveX
@ultrajam
6 years ago
2,583 posts

researchcooperative:Whether or not other users are OK with the notifications page, I am not OK with it.

This is why you need to do user testing.

--
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Education, learning resources, TEL, AR/VR/MR, CC licensed content, panoramas, interactive narrative, sectional modules (like jrDocs), lunch at Uni of Bristol. Get in touch if you share my current interests or can suggest better :)

@researchcooperative
6 years ago
694 posts

ps

Possibly off-topic, but this book (which I have read) helps explain why people do not see most of what is in front of their eyes:

Steven Sloman and Philip Fernbach (2017) The Knowledge Illusion: Why We Never Think Alone

"We all think we know more than we actually do. Humans have built hugely complex societies and technologies, but most of us don’t even know how a pen or a toilet works. How have we achieved so much despite understanding so little? Cognitive scientists Steven Sloman and Philip Fernbach argue .... etc."

--
PJ Matthews, Kyoto
Migrated from Ning 2.0. Now at Jamroom 6 beta and using Jamroom Hosting for The Research Cooperative (researchcooperative.org)

SteveX
@ultrajam
6 years ago
2,583 posts

That's another reason why we do user testing.

--
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Education, learning resources, TEL, AR/VR/MR, CC licensed content, panoramas, interactive narrative, sectional modules (like jrDocs), lunch at Uni of Bristol. Get in touch if you share my current interests or can suggest better :)

@researchcooperative
6 years ago
694 posts

SteveX:
That's another reason why we do user testing.

Yes. And I have been trying to get feedback from users for years. Usually it only happens when I find a research colleague who is interested in the site and knows me personally. I am not sure how best to ellicit feedback when there is so little usage of the site to begin with. It's an act of faith on my part, almost, that there is inefficient communication in the scientific world and hence a need for the site I have created. But my own communication is obviously inefficient!

I feel like I am trying to lift an elephant by using a feather as a lever.

--
PJ Matthews, Kyoto
Migrated from Ning 2.0. Now at Jamroom 6 beta and using Jamroom Hosting for The Research Cooperative (researchcooperative.org)

SteveX
@ultrajam
6 years ago
2,583 posts

It would be worth reading a book on user testing or UX testing.

Consider giving users vouchers as an incentive to give top their time.

--
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Education, learning resources, TEL, AR/VR/MR, CC licensed content, panoramas, interactive narrative, sectional modules (like jrDocs), lunch at Uni of Bristol. Get in touch if you share my current interests or can suggest better :)

@researchcooperative
6 years ago
694 posts

SteveX:
It would be worth reading a book on user testing or UX testing.

Consider giving users vouchers as an incentive to give top their time.

Thanks. Good suggestions.

--
PJ Matthews, Kyoto
Migrated from Ning 2.0. Now at Jamroom 6 beta and using Jamroom Hosting for The Research Cooperative (researchcooperative.org)

Strumelia
@strumelia
6 years ago
3,602 posts

researchcooperative:
I'm not guessing. I was confused. Others will be confused too.

I was confused as well - I did not realize it was a dropdown menu. One of my profile Admins was confused by it in exactly the same way too... he told me that last year when the new layout occurred. Interestingly, he was reporting to me that the other options had 'disappeared'.
It's definitely visually confusing to some people.

But I made my poll and should be fun when a few feedback votes come in!

...Note that someone (not me!) has ALREADY indicated they don't see any options other than the first one that appears in the menu...! :
https://fotmd.com/pollster/poll/3/poll-have-you-reviewed-or-customized-your-site-notification-settings

--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 05/09/18 08:56:42AM

gary.moncrieff
@garymoncrieff
6 years ago
865 posts

Just a thought, been drinking mind, but what about a tabbed interface, each module having a tab? That way notification lists stay short, and easier discovered.
updated by @garymoncrieff: 05/09/18 09:50:35AM

SteveX
@ultrajam
6 years ago
2,583 posts

Could easily be too many tabs (max 10-ish in a row on a desktop), especially a problem on a mobile.

--
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Education, learning resources, TEL, AR/VR/MR, CC licensed content, panoramas, interactive narrative, sectional modules (like jrDocs), lunch at Uni of Bristol. Get in touch if you share my current interests or can suggest better :)

Strumelia
@strumelia
6 years ago
3,602 posts

Stacked vertical tabs would fit though, justified left... and each could expand only one at a time with the options?

--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

SteveX
@ultrajam
6 years ago
2,583 posts

Stacked scrolling vertical tabs, would be kind of unique.

There would have to be some kind of small screen replacement ui for an unknown quantity of tabs.

--
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Education, learning resources, TEL, AR/VR/MR, CC licensed content, panoramas, interactive narrative, sectional modules (like jrDocs), lunch at Uni of Bristol. Get in touch if you share my current interests or can suggest better :)

Strumelia
@strumelia
6 years ago
3,602 posts

SteveX:
Stacked scrolling vertical tabs, would be kind of unique.

Yeah, 'cause you'd sort of 'have to' click on each one to do anything- and clicking on one would pull out the notification choices for it- email/PM/none. Like a slim bureau of drawers.
JR does already have modules stacked vertically on the left in the ACP- when you click on one it opens the options for that one... click on another and the first one closes back up... limiting the clutter a bit.

--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 05/10/18 07:24:50AM

@lornawebber
6 years ago
334 posts

Just received this support ticket today from one of our members, which I thought I'd share in case proof were needed that the drop-down menu confuses people (Attending Events is the first option on our list):

"I haven’t been getting all my notifications all of a sudden for about a week . I went to my setting and saw for some reason it was on Attending Events .??? So I attempted to correct that which brought me to another dilemma ....too many choices I want all my notifications from what my friends have posted in my groups ,on my post comments etc ...so I thought I would test it with just picky something , I picked group notifications then clicked on save and it just went back to Attending Events no matter how many times I tried I even tried different choices and it always returned to 'Attending Events'. Help".

Personally I favour a simple list of notifications with current settings, even if it is a long list.

@brian
6 years ago
10,136 posts

You will be able to select between the drop-down (current) method and "all on one page" method in the next release of the user module - that's coming soon.

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Strumelia
@strumelia
6 years ago
3,602 posts

That's awesome Brian. Thank you so much!

--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

@lornawebber
6 years ago
334 posts

Outstanding!

SteveX
@ultrajam
6 years ago
2,583 posts

Strumelia:
JR does already have modules stacked vertically on the left in the ACP- when you click on one it opens the options for that one... click on another and the first one closes back up... limiting the clutter a bit.

Not on mobile though, it works a bit differently on mobile. Try it out.

--
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Education, learning resources, TEL, AR/VR/MR, CC licensed content, panoramas, interactive narrative, sectional modules (like jrDocs), lunch at Uni of Bristol. Get in touch if you share my current interests or can suggest better :)

Strumelia
@strumelia
6 years ago
3,602 posts

Steve, I'm not into self torture... L O L ...my phone screen is way too small to even -think- about doing ACP Admin chores except for the most absolute simple stuff. I'd rather eat nails. hahaha...

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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

SteveX
@ultrajam
6 years ago
2,583 posts

Strumelia:
Steve, I'm not into self torture... L O L ...my phone screen is way too small to even -think- about doing ACP Admin chores except for the most absolute simple stuff. I'd rather eat nails. hahaha...

Don't do admin chores on a mobile, just look at how the UI elements work.

And when the next version of jrUser arrives, try out both the old and the new options on a mobile and see which one works best.

--
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Education, learning resources, TEL, AR/VR/MR, CC licensed content, panoramas, interactive narrative, sectional modules (like jrDocs), lunch at Uni of Bristol. Get in touch if you share my current interests or can suggest better :)

Strumelia
@strumelia
6 years ago
3,602 posts

Oh, I see what you mean. ...and then I could temporarily switch my view if I actually NEEDED to do some Admin chore on a mobile in some unexpected situation maybe?

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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

Strumelia
@strumelia
6 years ago
3,602 posts

I just updated to the latest User module template and switched on the 'expanded view' option.
I LOVE it !!!
Thank you so much JR Team for giving us this option! Yaaaay... :D

--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

completed How to use the notifications dropdown menu - more clarity is needed